User talk:TK

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• User_talk:TK/vandalism

Yo, are yo retired or aren't you? Using this "retired" banner to end conversations you don't like isn't really very polite. --Jeεv☭s^{Your signature uses all my CPU time...} 15:26, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Yo, homie! Archiving isn't ending anything. Perhaps its your opinion, but not mine. Surely you ain't so intolerant as to be saying I should conduct my own page as you think it should be, eh? I didn't dislike the conversation at all, only the rudeness of some participants. And surely you are not saying any user here should be forced to endure that on their own page? If so, perhaps you should meet Andy. --TK_/MyTalk 15:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Why are you linking to a user talk page of a user that has not edited since august? --Signed by Elassint the Great ^Hi! 15:35, 10 December 2007 (EST)

There's intolerant and then there's politic. Consider archiving a conversation that's currently taking place as the equivalent of yelling "shut up" at a group of people you're talking to in meatspace. Having a banner up saying "retired" when you're clearly not, well that's deceit, innit? Edit: Heh, maybe you are "retired" in the replicant sense of the word, now. Blast other users for making a liar of me :D --Jeεv☭s^{Your signature uses all my CPU time...} 15:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)

While TK is "off line" until someone unblocks him, I must point out that "your" talk page is not "your own page". It's community property. RW 2.0 policy since day one. Archiving is for discussions that are over. human 16:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Blocked?

Why? Did he ask for it by himself? We are not CP, are we? Editor at CP 16:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

No, he didn't ask for it; I think that his entire raison d'etre, unchanged from before, is just to bother us. I don't think that should be allowed, especially given our previous experience with him. I can't say that fits within a general rule with which I'm comfortable; I think TK's just an outlier that should be dealt with as such. That said, if the consensus is "unblock," he should be unblocked regardless. Otherwise, he can wait out his 3 weeks.-αmεσ (spy) 16:05, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Is it because some e-mails or chats between you? I found him reasonable, poking more fun to CP than to RW, today. Maybe I am missing something? Editor at CP 16:11, 10 December 2007 (EST)

He's threatened to have Ames beaten up, so, uh yeah. -- מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Ok, that I definitely missed. Editor at CP 16:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Looking at the last day or two of interaction on archive#4 (above), and the "hide the evidence" attitude of archiving fresh conversations... I can't say I blame those who did the blocking. If it weren't for TK's continued obnoxious name-calling attitude, I'd unblock him. human 16:21, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I'll agree, conditionally, I'd go with a three day, (not three week) block. If he comes back, though, look for more of the same...constant bitching about how unfair we all are. If one can "filter" through that part of his posts you'll find he really doesn't have much to say. Sad really. CЯacke® 16:32, 10 December 2007 (EST)

To clarify, he didn't threaten to have me beaten up. He did threaten to call my summer employer and bitch about me (I don't know what he'd say or who'd care, but still), and in various other ways dangerously transgressed beyond e-mail animosity to threaten real-world consequences, merely for telling Conservapedia what a douche he actually was, and how he was working against them all along. That, and he plays users off against each other in an attempt to create drama, and serve god-knows what goals. That's the start of it at least. But, that said, commute to three days?-αmεσ (spy) 16:47, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Oh, whoops, I misread it. Still - a 'senior contributor' here. -- מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי ^{שְׁלֹום!}

I guess I'm in the minority here. I gave a glance to that archive#4 and didn't find anything too offensive. But I didn't bother to read word by word sorry. TK didn't bother me, but I understand AmesG. Still if I owned RW, I would block only vandals. And TK is definitely not a vandal. Some of his comments today have been insightful. Few of us have the privilege to having worked with Andy as close as him. He hasn't (lately) substituted the content of an article with "RW SUKCS!". It's normal that when he comes to RW he is on the defensive. And some RWikians jump on him for old faults. He treated me brutally in May. But it's over now! EDIT: I didn't know about those things, Ames. I think it's up to you to decide. Do you think he was serious? Or just his, a bit twisted, sense of humour? Editor at CP 17:00, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Oh, I retract myself. I said "He hasn't (lately)" vandalised. He probably has never vandalised RW, I must have confused with some other CP Sysop here. Editor at CP 17:19, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I think he's a sick & fairly twisted individual, and I know his function is generally to tear apart communities through backroom dealing and secrecy. I don't want that to happen here. But seeing as a long block on him would probably be underbroad - wouldn't reach the desired result - and probably against the RW ethos, I'll commute it to three days. I just don't want RW to turn into his own personal soapbox.-αmεσ (spy) 17:04, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Having an open forum means giving space for people one might otherwise not want to. I haven't been paying super close attention, but I'm not sure anything more than a short block is warranted. That being said, I'm going to go but a lotto ticket - when the French-Canadian Commie stands up for TK, it is truly a sign that hell has frozen over! PFoster 17:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I would hope that we can calm this down a bit. I know there is some antagonism between AG & TK but let's not get carried away. If TK wants to bitch about his treatment, then that's fine. No-one has to reply to him. But many people here have complained about summary treatment at CP. Why can't we prove our rational credentials and be a little more tolerant of those who disagree with us and even let bygones be bygones if both sides can forget the past and judge solely on current actions. If we have give a reprimanding block then at least use a Fibonacci sequence. Long blocks should not be our style except for chronic repeat offenders. Let's face it, no matter what many people think of TK he is probably a lot nicer (on the whole) than some of the people we have an axe to grind with, and who could respond in a much more devasting fashion if they took a mind to. So lengthy blocks should not be seen as a punishment but as a cooling off period. Genghis ^Marauding 17:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I treat TK as a repeat offender, and have tried to play nicely. It didn't work. That said, if you think 3 day is too long, feel free to lift it.-αmεσ (spy) 17:21, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Of course, neither did egging him on. Lurker 17:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Read this. Dude's damaged, and it's not fixable damage either. --Robledo 17:27, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I think that "drive by diagnosis by Wiki" is a bit of a stretch, if not a cheap shot. By your doing so, I can say with 96 percent accuracy that you stomp on bunnies. Or on long-eared jerboas.PFoster 17:37, 10 December 2007 (EST)

TK may be a repeat offender but what were his previous blocks? Sometimes a draconian punishment can have a negative outcome. I know it only made me more determined when I was at the receiving end on CP. However, I'll not go over the head of the blocker. Although we may try and stand together, it is the individual's call at the end of the day. Let's remember that TK is just an editor here and not a sysop. Just because we have the power now doesn't mean we should exact retribution. Maybe a short ban is warranted (I haven't checked all the history), so start with that and proceed á la Fib if necessary. However, when he returns it would be better if we didn't antagonise him without due cause, perhaps even turning the other cheek? Rationalwiki was formed as a counter to Conservapedophilia so I think is our duty to fulfill our "liberal" credentials whenever possible and stake the moral high ground. Genghis ^Marauding 17:41, 10 December 2007 (EST)

TK's modus operandi is hard to describe to people new to him. That's part of his style. He is a total fiend for private communications, in which he is charming and "innocent" to newcomers, getting them to question old feuds as bygones or even persecution of him. Those who do not play his game, however, are moved into another category, one where he constantly attacks them, usually by sideways innuendo and unreferenced complaints. His private communication goal is, as said above, to divide and conquer, no more and no less. I'm sure in a few days we'll see people who have not seen much of his history saying "why not let him be a sysop, he seems reasonable". Power is what he wants. The "drive by" diagnosis above is, while not a legitimate professional opinion, also not "drive by". It's based on many long months of observing how he interacts. Anyway, once one starts ignoring him, one gets ignored by him, generally (except for his trying to drop my real name around here somewhere, but spelling it wrong...). The last 2-3 emails I got from him were months ago, nasty and rude, but ignored. End of drama. I'll probably unblock him later this evening to take the lid off the pressure-cooker, eh? human 17:44, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Actually, I protest this block - primarily on the basis that people will inevitably begin (and have begun) taking shots at a man who currently can't defend himself. And secondly, what did TK do exactly? As far as I can tell, his recent offenses consisted of a) saying things that rather annoyed some people, b) archiving his talk page repeatedly. The former I won't touch, as it should never be a reason for blocking on RW. And as for the latter, if he does so, why not just copy the convo from the archive back to the talk page, with a note "archived by TK at x time and date"? It's hardly a great inconvience, and newcomers to whatever discussion is going on can judge for themselves whether such archiving is deceitful or not. Honestly, people are blocked for less time for causing a lot more trouble.

At the very least, three days is far too long a block for anymore than a troll. And on a related note: does RationalWiki actually have an official policy page on user rights for essay, user, and user talk spaces? Uchiha^KATON! 17:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Re: policy, yes, follow the guidelines link from the main page. human 17:52, 10 December 2007 (EST)

As long as people understand and credit what Human just said - he's 100% correct - I think it'd be fair if he lifts the block later tonight. My block (a reduction of an infinite block placed on him a few minutes before) was more prophylactic against these insidious tactics. Those who don't know him, beware; those that do, we'll sleep with one eye open.-αmεσ (spy) 17:48, 10 December 2007 (EST)

His private communication goal is, as said above, to divide and conquer, no more and no less.

TK, you asked me why I don't email/IM/etc--this is why. If I have anything to say to you, I'll do it in front of everyone. --Gulik 20:06, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Ames, currently RW is a mobocracy not an oligarchy. Some people might have their own reasons to see TK banished but the rest of us are not aware of them. So, if TK proves to be unreasonable when (or if) he comes back then it will be in the open and everyone can give their verdict. If you conduct private conversations with TK and get pissed off about it, then you cannot expect everyone else back you up carte blanche. So if you want to spar with TK I suggest you do it in the open where everyone can see both sides of the debate - preferably without dragging up past issues and refraining from personal abuse (on both sides). If TK come back as a real prick then everyone will see him for that and probably support you. Until then lets try and conduct this as gentlemen. Genghis ^Marauding 19:05, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Insofar as it's anyone's right to learn from their own mistakes, I'm sorry I acted to abridge that right for the community. I just hope no-one, errr, enjoys that right too much, in this case.-αmεσ (spy) 19:41, 10 December 2007 (EST)

unblocked

Actually, whether he deserved whatever block he got or not, I don't think it's fair to discuss an editor without them being able to respond. Rude of us. So I am going to unblock him as soon as I hit "save" on this, and shoot him a quick email via his RW account so he knows. In case he got bored and stopped reading here for the duration.

And, also, doesn't the MW software have an option where blocked users can still edit their user page and comment on their talk page? human 17:55, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Good call; I wish it did, but I haven't seen it yet. If it does, that's probably what we should use from now on.-αmεσ (spy) 17:57, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Certainly for situations like this. Which shouldn't happen anyway. human 17:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)

You might like to contact Ed "piss" Poor about that as I believe he intoduced it to Wikipedia. Genghis ^Marauding 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

As Human should (and probably actually does) remember, when the nice folks here were last rat-packin me, months ago, Trent and/or Human changed the data base, so I was told, to stop me from being able to post on my own page to answer their lies then. They posted publicly about doing so. Odd they now claim not to know, eh? It is yet another dishonesty they will explain away, I am certain. --TK_/MyTalk 19:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)

It's funny that I don't remember that.-αmεσ (spy) 20:26, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Haha, I do, ah, good times. Such nostalgia. Trent did some weird block on TK, I don't even remember how. Or what it did. But it lasted about as long as a typical RW stunt block - a few hours, or a day or two at most. human 20:38, 10 December 2007 (EST)

not "retired", obviously

On another note, can someone remove all these silly "retired" templates, etc., from his pages? human 17:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Apparently not without being a wiki nazi NightFlare 18:31, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Wow, I missed that revision. TK to Elassint for removing the template: "Fuck you and your bullshit, wiki nazi." I am dumbfounded. I guess the block discussed above was completely justified. human 18:41, 10 December 2007 (EST) <-- head spinning

People doubt me, but I don't know why....-αmεσ (spy) 19:03, 10 December 2007 (EST)

YEEESH. 19:04, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Yes, you obviously missed the comment that "a**hole" left as well. And the fact if I had removed the template, I would have been attacked for doing so, as before, being since this page is "public" property. And finally, in answer to another "bright light" I didn't refer the template to anyone. That was done by the management here. --TK_/MyTalk 19:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)

TK, how about you stop overreacting to what others say/do to you, then will your victim attitude be justified. (And how is calling your retirement status "bullshit" offensive?) NightFlare 20:13, 10 December 2007 (EST)

And now, Sinfest. For your convenience.

--AKjeldsen^Godspeed! 19:48, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Ahhhhhh, that's so zen... I feel cleansed of sins I didn't even know I committed. human 20:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)

What is TK's motive for being here after his summary dismissal from Conservapedia ?

You can see his tactics here - conquer by dividing. Get the poor fools to fight amongst themselves and scurry away from the rubble. We've tried it too of course but all's fair ... & this is war. The only question is why? Unless it's a "cunning plan" between him & A. S. to get him in our midst under the cloak of a ban from CP, there's no profit in it for him, is there? Under his guise as Night Train he tried to weasel me into an email chat - why, I can't imagine, but I wouldn't believe 1 (one) word the guy said. Susan^{purrrrr ...} 20:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

"That guy in the van outside? He doesn't actually have any candy." -- Penny Arcade

--Gulik 20:10, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Susan, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, the same happened to me. I wasn't as strong as you and now I am on the Dark Side. He who was the Terrible Blocker, the Insane Deleter, the Raving Madman, the Emperor's Darth Vader showed a human, friendly side that so easily attracted someone as gullible as me to his trap. But it is worth it! Come to the Dark Side, you won't regret it! May the Goat be with you, Susan...Editor at CP 02:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Premature archivation

(This got Artchived before I could give it the reply it deserved. -- Gulik.) Well, you have done your job well, Gulik! It isn't your place to use this place, as an Andy-like Star Chamber to take after me. Like I keep saying, you talk a good public game, but never back your play with facts. I have never sent an email like you mention to anyone. And if they produce it, I want a copy of it, to examine the headers. You have a narrow small mind, one you fill with bullshit provided by others, and never once have you contacted me to find out if what shit you are swallowing is true. That is why people leave here, as I said above. You think you have some "right" to attack others. You don't. Stay angry, though, keep shaking that fist at the world! Love you too, babe. --TK/MyTalk 06:16, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Star chambers are private. I plan to keep this all out in the daylight. And if I'm afraid of making a fool of myself in front of a crowd, I shouldn't be HERE, now should I? Anyone remember the stuff I'm talking about, or is my UN/CIA mind-control chip acting up again? --Gulik 20:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I think one of the things many of us enjoy here at RW is the opportunity to make fools of ourselves in front of a crowd. At least, well, most of us have done it. Often, in some cases. <-- (me) human 20:42, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Why protect?

Is TK actually quitting RW?-αmεσ (spy) 20:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Nah, it's only protected against moving, but I haven't the slightest idea why. Ellasiant, any input?--Offeep 20:13, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Since everyone who might interfere with him (nasty mind picture ugh!) & his archives is a sysop, it's rather pointless anyway. Susan^{purrrrr ...} 20:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I think he actually quit. Hasn't come back in a day and a half. Uncork the champagne?-αmεσ (spy) 20:47, 11 December 2007 (EST)

You brutal oppressors have driven another brilliant conservative mind away! I hope you're all proud of yourselves! --Gulik 23:08, 11 December 2007 (EST) (Am I being sarcastic or not? Even I can't tell any more...)

Obviously another brilliant mind here never bothered to look at my political compass. Figures. Like most of the lesser lights here Gulik, since all you do is hate, you have never actually bothered to ask. When RW rises above those people like those posting above, and gets new leadership that actually can do more than jerk their knees, some progress will be made. Those here who have asked, know I am not of Andy's brand of conservatism. --TK_/MyTalk 23:12, 11 December 2007 (EST)

No, but you're of Andy's brand of wiki-management, which is why I dearly hope the mods here are never deranged enough to give you any actual authority. --Gulik 03:23, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Or maybe he just conformed to Andy's directives. He consulted with Andy before every important action. And there is no Andy at RW, not yet... Editor at CP 04:00, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Somehow in posting to you, it reminds of a grade schooler, having to answer the obvious. Pity you are so filled with hate, I suspect its a general hate, an anger at all of society, rather than just aimed at me. One moderates how the site owner/management wishes them to do. Period. There isn't any choice given. I'm quite happy with how long I managed to stick around, and very happy with all the people I was able to let back in, and help keep around. I don't really care what other's might think, but I am sure someone cares about how you feel, Gulik, someplace. --TK_/MyTalk 03:36, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Why can't we all just STOP THIS SHIT AND DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN MAKE ARGUMENTS WITH TK????? --Cheers, ♦ Ryan ♦ ^{ǂ wuz here ǂ} 03:44, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Hey, TK. I'm having a little trouble understanding something: If we're so filled with hate and have been treating you so badly, why do you keep coming back here? There should be enough Internets for all of us. --AKjeldsen^Godspeed! 04:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)

That exact tactic with almost the same words was used last week by my 7 years fiancée when leaving me. As such, it is very unfair in my opinion; it actually reminds me of CP. By the way, what happened to cpcolumn? No more time in your hands or do you see WIGO and Best of Conservapedia as good alternatives? I loved it. Not as much as her though, you'll understand. Editor at CP 04:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Sorry to hear about your fiancee, Editor :-(. Whenever something sad happens to me, I find that reading WIGO helps a bit....-αmεσ (spy) 11:02, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Definitely. Luckily the Boycott was over by then ;-) Editor at CP 15:35, 12 December 2007 (EST)

This is really ugly

I'm not a regular here but, from the little that I've seen, this TK vs. some other people is just Out Of Order. This is supposed to be RationalWiki, isn't it?

Taking the piss out of irrationality is one thing. But having public cat fights is surely one of the things this site stands against, isn't it?

The only acceptable way to react to personal attacks is to ignore them.

May I humbly suggest that TK and those opposing him "cool their jets"?

If the users on this site are as smart as many think they are then the alleged divide and conquer won't work, will it?

(I'm very well aware that I may be missing some foul behind-the-scenes skulduggery but, shit, who the fuck cares?) Ajkgordon 04:18, 12 December 2007 (EST)

I agree with you. But if you are quite new, I warmly suggest you to read everything here (CP Timeline, Best of CP, CP Newcomer's Guide, Cabal, RW, etc. etc.) and on cpcolumn.wordpress.com on why and when RW originated. The March to May happenings are quite significant and make for a very interesting read. Sorry if this is old news. Editor at CP 04:29, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Yeah, I've read some of it and yes, I've been involved with some (minor) tussles with TK over on the other side - he has a fairly aggressive and dismissive on-line persona.

But come on, this is typical Internet reality disassociation - using posting to communicate as if it's a chat in the pub and missing the other 80% of the communication. Thank God reality isn't teh interwebs or we would have destroyed humanity a long time ago. Ajkgordon 04:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)

On the other hand, the TK (sorry TK!) of that April-May was way above the normal Internet or Usenet whacko. Another contributing factor was that CP wasn't always as it is now. Even Andy seemed open to discussion at first. It's harder to accept what CP is and was, when you are illuded first, and are ready to commit time for it. You are right about internet and communication. I suggest you to e-mail or messenger-chat with TK (or others), it's a completely different experience - it added a new dimension to my understanding of CP... and RW. Editor at CP 05:37, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Yes, I have a few questions for TK that would be better discussed on messenger, but finding the time is difficult at the moment. What I'm primarily interested in is how what I assume is a US Catholic ID view (as per TK) differs to a European Catholic naturalist view (as per my wife) differs and why. Things like CP, Creationism and ID are complete anathema to almost every religious person I know this side of the pond. But TK's religious beliefs seem quite reasonable certainly compared to some of the extraordinary stuff on CP. Ajkgordon 05:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)

I don't know as if the views of European Catholics can or do differ all that much. Do they? I know some Catholics are radicalized more in Europe, but as for Main Stream Catholics, is there all that much difference? I am by no means a KofC or Legion of Mary member! I had little knowledge, nor did I pay much attention to YEC's before CP. They are an interesting (alarming) blend of Old Testament and New, I find. They really are a tiny minority here. As for IM, doesn't take all that much time, and more gets exchanged in faster time, than posting. ;-) --TK_/MyTalk 08:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Not in theology, no. But you yourself say you're an ID-ist. No Catholic I know in Europe contemplates ID as being a serious alternative to the Big Bang, evolution, etc. It's hardly ever an issue. Science is viewed with far less suspicion in Europe than it seemingly is among the religious in the US. I hope to find time for an IM chat but I'm rarely sat in the same place for more than ten minutes at a time. I'm on a train at the moment! Ajkgordon 09:44, 12 December 2007 (EST)

You might want to check this out and this op ed piece by Christoph Schönborn, the Roman Catholic Cardinal Archbishop of Vienna here in the New York Times. As the lead editor of the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, and head of the Congregation of the Catechism, most feel he would not, could not, have written such a piece without first obtaining Papal permission from Benedict. That does make sense, as a Prince of the Church does not speak out with a degree of support from the Pope, especially one so highly placed as Schonborn. --TK_/MyTalk 15:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)

not interested

Do you really think, after the way you've behaved to so many here, that anyone might be interested in yoir opinion on anything? Susan^{purrrrr ...} 16:21, 12 December 2007 (EST) (Don't reply - I'm not interested in your smarm)

It is only amazing that you continue to spread your hate, dear, know less than shit, except what you have been told, and you blindly accept, about me. But there are many sheep here, not enough Goats, it seems. Your post is just another in the long effort of the Old Guard to intimidate other users and continue the hating as Gengis and others have posted about above. What is truly amazing, Susan, is that you actually believe people don't see through you. Happy Holidays to you! --TK_/MyTalk 16:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Yep; that's our TK. -- מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי ^{שְׁלֹום!}

Yeah. Recycling material, though. People are full of hate and blind as sheep, the old guard run everything, and it's incredible people don't realize it. The audience may still love it, but I doubt it will satisfy the critics. --AKjeldsen^Godspeed! 16:45, 12 December 2007 (EST)

This site is so depressing sometimes. The old prune Susan comes here to snark for no apparent reason and everyone piles on TK when he snarks back. If you hate him so much just ban him and stop pretending you're all better than that. He's a jerk. Some RW are jerks. Just get over it or move on. Like a bunch of fucking grade school kids.

I don't know what TK thinks, but *I* am interested in his opinion. Not one of the RWikians, Hojimachong included, got to be Andy's right hand. He's quite an insider and we are lucky to have him here. In the so humble opinion of an Editor at CP 16:52, 12 December 2007 (EST). Addendum: yes, he behaved badly to me. But it was seven months ago.