Talk:Main Page/Archive21

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Lurkers

I wonder how many lurkers we've got. There must be one or two long time ones - there have been one or two recent additions to our named editor roster who have displayed an impressive knowledge of our history. Would it be possible/desirable to show the number of persons watching a page at any given time (like the forums)? I don't mean showing their identities (like the forums) just a number! Over to you Trent.   ^Contribs_Talk 10:47, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

We could start looking for eye tracks . . . ^{Exasperate me!}Sheesh!_{Not the most impressive contributor here} 09:27, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden, Jr.

Where have I heard that "Robinette" name before - Science fiction somewhere but teh little gray cells won't bring it up.   ^Contribs_Talk 11:20, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Brief announcement

It is my somewhat mixed pleasure to announce that as of now, rather than being on hiatus, the CP Column is officially closed. I don't really want to waste more energy on those... people, and with WIGO@CP around to do it just as well, there's no real point, either. Progress!

My blogging energies will be channelled into the newly launched and probably almost entirely non-CP-related Vox in Deserto instead.

Thank you for your attention. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 22:11, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh well all things must end, good luck with your new blog. $\approx$$\pi$ 22:19, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

First post!! ^_^ <font=""; face="Comic Sans MS">Jellyfish!^{Nobody likes nothing. I certainly wish with all my heart that it did not exist.} 22:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Don't forget to add it/replace it at the blogroll, and to self-promote the hell out of it at WIGO blogs! And, congratulations. Your blog was a haven in that dark time when RW was transitioning, and we I thank you for it. ħuman 22:59, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Help, please

Why does my firefox put the fonts all farked up on some sites (usually blogs) and how do I fix it?

δλερνερ ^{διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω} 06:37, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

That is cool why do you want to change it? Go to Tool->Options->(If you are using 3.0)Tab:Contents and change the font, if that doesn't work ->advanced and change the fonts there or allow the website settings. Why are you reading Michelle Malkin? $\approx$$\pi$

It hurts my eyes, When I do what you say it changes all fonts to Times New Roman, help me please! I read Ann Coulter too, I read what I want. δλερνερ ^{διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω} 06:52, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

On my ff (3 Beta 5) it's Edit → preferences → content.   ^Contribs_Talk 06:49, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

You also can set your preferred serif and sans-serif fonts. TNR and Arial are just the defaults. ħuman 15:34, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

More screenshot fun. $\approx$$\pi$ 07:02, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

New project?

I do believe that we've just been challenged. Perhaps this should be a new Rationalwiki project? Pinto's5150 ^Talk 15:17, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Is there a good, "fair" synopsis of the book (it's a book, right?) somewhere? After all, Behe did us the favor of posting an "interview" with himself about his book on Amazon, which made our work so much easier (and practical). Ideally, the synopsis would be similar - the author(s) themselves brief overview of their work. ħuman 16:50, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

This is the best I could really find, it seems to have a short, short, synopsis, in addition to having the text of the entire book (As far as I can tell at least). Pinto's5150 ^Talk 18:03, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Interesting. Maybe the "Introduction" could be attempted? ħuman 18:16, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Hehe... "If you have Christian allies in your class, it may be helpful to take turns asking questions. Also consider studying the issues together and praying for one another." IOW, gang up on the teacher with our talking points. Pray before the contest. ħuman 18:18, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

New Goatse

Now that Goatse has been relaunched and is 99% work safe (yes, check it out from work and laugh, the url is the only thing that might get you in trouble) has anyone considered that the ascii art of it might be completely appropriate to post on Conservapedia? --02:20, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Did they change anything? I didn't notice. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 11:15, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Potential electoral college results

Interesting thing, I was playing with numbers in the electoral college, and I found 2 not so far fetched potential results that could yield a tie in this election. Based on this map of who is currently leading where, the shift of NH to McCain (a very close race currently) would give both candidates 269 electoral votes. Also, if McCain picks Romney and he delivers Michigan, but Obama takes Virginia (a dead heat) the results are the same. The election then goes to the House of Representatives where the Democrats should still have a sizeable majority. This is still no guarantee for Obama, since all 435 seats are up the overall picture can change much more dramatically than it does in the Senate. Also, Representatives may switch party lines at times, and some may feel the obligation to vote the way their constituents did, regardless of their party. A tie in the electoral college would certainly highly favor Obama, but it would be an interesting thing to see. I think the House has only decided one election ever (I forget the exact year, but it was a 4 way race). Anyway, playing with this map is fun, and more educational then Dolphin Olympics.

Another thing I noticed is that the wp:National Popular Vote Interstate Compact could change things. If McCain wins the popular vote but Obama carries enough states to win the electoral vote, enough blue states would vote for the popular vote winner to give it to McCain. Since no states McCain is likely to carry have passed this law, it would not change the results if the situation were reversed (if McCain wins the popular vote, Obama won't even receive electoral votes from his home state). It's going to be an interesting election. DickTurpis 10:35, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Don't quote me on this, because I'm going from memory and don't have anything to reference in front of me... but I think the presidential election went to the house twice in American History. The first time led to the election of John Quincy Adams over Andrew Jackson (the infamous corrupt bargain) and then again in 1877, which resulted in the election of Rutherford Hayes.... I think those are the only two.... Fun Fact: the 1877 race was contested even more hotly than 2000. At one point, two mobs (representing different candidates) converged on each other in the middle of town and opened fire. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 13:48, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Now that you mention it, I think you're right. I forgot about the Hayes fiasco. My American history isn't as strong as it should be for a history major, particularly in the Reconstruction to the 20th century. But I concentrated in European history. DickTurpis 13:57, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

The website http://electoral-vote.com/ is particularly good for electoral vote questions and commentary. Might want to toss the votemaster a question and see what the response is. Virginia has been trending as a dead heat for some time[1]. New Hampshire has been Obama for a bit[2] though he has lost some of his lead. Still, if it was held today the trends suggest Obama win but just barely. And there is Dolphin Olympics II out now.[3] --Shagie 14:19, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I actually did pretty well at history, my near photographic memory really helps with dates and interesting trivia. In High school I got a huge extra credit boost for reciting all the presidents in order. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 14:21, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

As far as NH being up for grabs, etc., the state has been trending more Democratic for decades now, although the entrenched GOP families have hung onto some of their seats. In 2006, both legislative bodies went Dem for the first time in a century or so, a popular Dem governor was re-elected with almost 75% of the vote, and both House seats went to the Dems (in my district a political noob spent 10% of what the incumbent spent and won). This year, a popular ex-Governor is running for the contested Senate seat. ħuman 14:30, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Another thing occurred to me. I've been a bit concerned about the Bradley effect in polling, making me slightly anxious that in a few key states Obama isn't really doing as well as it appears. But now I'm wondering whether the fact that it appears there's more excitement than ever among younger voters (far and away for Obama) means polling is under-representing that constituency. Most polling is by telephone, right? Do they ever call cell phones? If not, they're missing a large number of mostly young people who only have a cell phone. Could it be that, assuming that these young deadbeats actually turn up at the polls, Obama's support is actually understated in these polls? I hope so. How does my logic sound? DickTurpis 14:35, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

What you say about polling is becoming a major issue among those who care about it, yes. Historically there have been other poll-masking issues, but this one is going to force pollsters to come up with a workaround, as more and more people go "wireless-only". Perhaps it's due time we had directories that included cell numbers, but the geographic issue is a major headache (due to portability, many people don't live in their "area code" any more). ħuman 14:44, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I agree that the cell phone problem is an interesting one that will only get worse and needs to be addressed, and maybe skewing things all ready. However, what I wanted to address is the "young people will win the election" meme. I have been involved in politics since I was, well, a baby. I have done all the "grass roots" stuff for close to probably a thousand candidates in my lifetime. The majority of them have been local elections, local senate, house, legislature, hell even judges and city council. I have also done local campaign work for national campaigns. I have done mayors, I have done governors. I have been to national conventions, state conventions, I was ward chair, etc. All this to say I have been listening and viewing politics for a while. I have heard the "young people are excited and will vote for me" and the "first time voters are going to come out for me" lines many times. Every time I have heard it, every time, it has not paned out as expected. Relying on young voters, or new voters to win elections has always failed.

That said Obama seems to have won the nominations off that demographic. Is it possible for the first time in my lifetime at least, that a candidate can actually mobilize young and first time voters? If he can I will be amazed and I think it would be one of the more significant events in recent political history. But due to my past experience I remain very skeptical about it. tmtoulouse ^annoy 14:53, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Human, what you said about NH is true here in Colorado as well. in fact, we were one of the states that fell under the so called "Purple Paradox" that is, in 2004 we elected a Democrat for Governor, Senator, a large majority of the house, and gave control of both state houses to Democrats, but we went for Bush in the presidential election. Colorado is one of the purple states that Obama has a strong chance to win this year though. This stems mostly from the apathy of the Colorado Springs Religious Fundies, but also in part to the large number of new residents and techno geeks coming in. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 14:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Hey Tmtoulouse, can we get a list of what mayors and governors you've done? and I hope you were payed well for your actions.... (just a little joke, relax people) SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 15:03, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Trent about the young voters (not so much about "new" ones though) - they have traditionally had little impact. I have heard it said that age groups vote in a similar percentage to their age, ie, the older people get, the higher the turnout. The cell phone thing is of course partly a separate issue - sure, it's about the under-30's in many ways, but many older people who have moved since 2000 have ditched the land line. A friend of mine has now had the same Texas-based cell number in CT, IL, and now MD. ħuman 15:11, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, my parents are still using their CO based numbers even in TX and now Alaska. As for what you're saying Human, I think this election, like 2004, is a little different for young voters. 2000 really hammered in that a few votes do make a major difference, and as the push to rid the country of that god awful electoral college gains momentum, we could see a major voting overhaul in our lifetimes. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 15:16, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Young voters don't "remember" 2000... ħuman 15:31, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I disagree... I'm still considered a young voter (at 22) and I very clearly remember 2000... complete with the comedy sketches that went with it... On top of that, the new voters for this election (the 18 years olds) were 10 for that election. When I was ten, it was Clinton/Gore against Dole/Kemp and I remember much about that.... Give us younglings a little more credit than that. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 15:34, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

It's not a matter of "credit" - just that most people under 15 aren't following the political news in detail. Some certainly are - they probably end up being the 20-30% of 20-somethings that turn out to vote. ħuman 15:37, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) I think that may have some truth to it, but judging from talk around campus, I think this election will have a higher turnout. Not only is there more buzz in general for politics, but Obama is making huge inroads with our demographic. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 15:49, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Some of the problems the polls are having:

• Cell phones - pollsters don't (can't) call cell phones. With the 18-30 year old degraphic having a higher number of cell phones and no landlines, this means that it is hard to get a representation of that group. Some polls will adjust by increased sampling until they do get the number if 18-30 year olds they want, others will weight those higher... which brings us to...
• Likely voter - you have to have voted before. This means the 19 and 20 year old is not considered a 'likely voter'. That demographic is underrepresented by the polls. With the higher turn out of the 20 somethings than past years there may be some upsets that the polls have trouble predicting. That said, don't count the electorates before they've cast. --Shagie 15:53, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Another major issue with the polling is the underrepresentaion of racist attitudes. This is reflected in the "Bradley Effect" (for those that don't know, this basically says that people will lie to pollsters, saying they'll vote for a (insert minority) candidate, but then vote differently. This includes exit polls and goes up by 20% if the pollster is in the minorty in question) but the bigger problem is that exit polls are voluntary. The highest amount of refusals for polling come from bottom income/little to no formal education. Their views are usually picked up by another group, but racism is one issue that seems to surface heaviest with this group, and without accurate information, it's hard to see what's really going on. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 16:03, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Another factor: has Barr's influence been taken into consideration much? There was, at least for a time, some consideration that he could be a spoiler, but I hardly ever see him mentioned in polls. I was considering giving to his campaign, figuring whatever small amount I can afford to give this year would have a bigger impact on his campaign, and perhaps he might take enough votes from McCain to make a difference. Haven't heard much about him recently though. DickTurpis 16:09, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh, and ignore my statement far above about the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. I didn't read it carefully, so I missed how it won't change anything the total electoral count of the ratifying states is 270, which won't be for a long time. So it won't have an effect this year. DickTurpis 16:15, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Hillary's speech

Anyone notice that Hillary ended her speech with "Godspeed to you all"? Of course, there's nothing inherently funny about that, but after reading CP for so long, I'm almost hearing "fuck you all" when I hear that. Kind of amusing. I didn't think anyone said that anymore, except Andy and maybe some folks in SCA. DickTurpis 11:42, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I jumped on that at talk:wigo world. It's one of those phrases that conservapedia has forever altered in our minds... ħuman 16:14, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

And by the way, the last word was Godspeed - she ended "God bless you all and Godspeed" - actually an appropriate use, since it wishes well for a journey. That's why Andy's uses of it often carry a taint of insultiveness. ħuman 14:31, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

PUMA (again)

Ok, I know we have a discussion going on at talk:WigoW, but seriously.... Watch this video from the daily show, specifically the interviews with Clinton supporters. They're like little FUCKING kids..... SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 20:07, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

I think some of them are false flaggers, judging by one that Malloy played yesterday. They can't be real. Anyway, Hils nommed Obama for the job tonight... ħuman 20:57, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

Surely, they were all spoofs. Or am I just overestimating Americans? Genghis^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 07:03, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I can't speak for all of them, but the woman in the front row (the one with the cast) is not only real, but she's one of the biggest PUMA people out there (I guess she couldn't make the cut for Cougar) SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 10:59, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

PUMA, curiousity, spin, why not Joe ?

That PUMA video was funny, and the one of The Daily Show Tuesday August 26, 2008 was as well.

Was no one here in favor of Hillary rather than Obama early on? As a non-Liberal, i'm curious as to how you guys (not those that get interviewed on TV, that is so often hype) decided which you preferred, and i in no way wish to exclude those of you who are not American from the conversation. It would be interesting to know how you see the US campaign season, and what kind of spin your TV news puts on it.

I'm willing to bet Brits understand the US system better than the other way around.

I don't see the Liberals on RW as being typical Liberals, and i don't expect you see yourselves that way either.

Possibly nobody here is interested in my personal view as a Libt, but i was amazed from the start why Joe Biden wasn't the chosen one for the Dems -- i thought he had it all over Hillary and Obama in several ways. They are all three smart, but he was the quickest-witted, the most knowledgeable, has the most experience carrying water for Liberal causes, is well-liked by nearly everyone, is known to be honest (a big one for me), and knows well several world leaders.

-- Rem^Beau 19:37, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Speaking only for myself, not as some label or part of some group, in the very early days of the primaries I had a fairly clear idea of the procession of my favorites among the declared: Kucinich, then Edwards (lucked out there!), then Obama, then a close tie among several including Clinton and Richardson. I knew my first choice was not going to get the nod, but as I looked at the field, I was impressed that I could easily get behind any of them in the general election. Your points about Biden argue strongly for Obama's drafting him for the VP nomination, of course. He may not be "unpopular", but he was far behind Clinton and Obama (and Edwards) in national name-recognition this time 'round - I think the last major TV show he was on was the Bork SC nomination-killing. ħuman 19:56, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm actually pretty close to Human, Kucinich is the closest to my personal viewpoints, but I knew right away that he didn't have a serious chance at the nod. Edwards was my second choice as well. Once it boiled down to the two, I was fairly undecided, there were good points and bad points about both. As the primary wound down, however, I turned a little more toward Barack, as I saw Hillary stooping to the lowest possible denominator in desperation. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 20:10, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Good points. What i find most interesting is that NEARLY every self-identified Liberal finds Kucinich to be closest in views. Even some that didn't think so took those on-line tests which return agreement percentages, and those show a 93% match with DK, or thereabouts. I don't know what to make of that -- it seems all wrong. Do they all pick somebody else because DK is an unlikely candidate? Is that the overriding consideration in everybody's thinking?

One important difference, i suppose, is that a Libt doesn't have a chance this time around anyhow, while your party does (and will almost surely win). This frees me up to vote for somebody close to my views.

Not only can Barack speak circles around McCain, he is clearly taller than McCain, which some say is an important factor.

-- Rem^Beau 22:10, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Altho choosing Hillary for VP would have been untenable for Barack, it would have clinched his election. Failing that, any choice other than JB would have been crazy, in my view. Biden was clearly a better choice than the rest.

As James Carville says, Pubs can't win this election, but Dems could lose it by making really dumb mistakes -- and are definitely capable of it.

-- Rem^Beau 22:23, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure Hillary was offered the VP. And I'm sure she refused it. As a matter of course, in both cases. So you really like Biden, eh? ħuman 23:10, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Yup, and i would have said he would be formidable in a debate against whomever McCain would pick for VP, now i'm not so sure. His foreign policy credentials are such that he would outshine almost anybody in a debate, but his modus operandi may not play so well against a lady gov -- he'll have to be verrrry careful, and that will cramp his style. A clever barb that would normally come off as witty against a guy could backfire. Hard to look good when debating a grandmother.

-- Rem^Beau 23:49, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't know about that.... There was some serious smack lied down on Hillary during the Democratic primery, and there was very little offense taken. I think most likely, she's gonna get up there and make a fool of herself, much like Dan Quayle (You sir are no Jack Kennedy) anybody? SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 00:04, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Hmm. An interesting point. But given Hillary's reputation, i'm not sure many folks would see her as granny getting skewered. Altho her tears in NH DID generate some sympathy. Palin is as yet unknown -- that might make a difference.

-- Rem^Beau 00:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) but at the same time, when some of the most popular footage of her circulating is her firing an automatic weapon.... Do you really think she'll be able to play the abused little girl routine if Biden humiliates her? SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 00:33, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, it's an "appearance" issue, I think. At the debate she will likely not be armed with a defensive weapon of gun, so if Biden isn't careful he could look like a "guy beating up on a woman". If he can get her to bare her fangs first he'll have more leeway. ħuman 18:43, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't think so. If she gets like Andy-level destroyed at the debate, and the bloggers and pundits start complaining about it, all the liberal bloggers and pundits have to do is start running clips from her previous interviews and bring that tumbling down. Not to mention, is that really the character trait they want to push? Our vice president can't even fend off Joe Biden, and she's one heart attack from the Presidency? SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 18:57, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

If Palin comes off as a HAG (Humorless and Grouchy), she'll make Biden look good (especially if he just smiles at it), but if she betrays a lack of knowledge (say foreign policy issues) or stumbles, and Biden pulls a vicious shark attack, sympathy will be a factor.

If Biden clearly bests her in a debate (likeliest schenario), for sure "liberal bloggers and pundits" will pounce, but Liberals are already won over. Who else trusts Liberal bloggers?

// Our vice president can't even fend off Joe Biden, and she's one heart attack from the Presidency?

You make Biden sound like a lightweight, but that is not at all his image -- quite the opposite. Anybody reasonable would expect Biden to trounce Palin.

And it is a capital mistake to assume most voters are swayed by thinking that nuanced, "one heart attack from the Presidency". ("Nuanced" here is meant sardonically.)

Also, let me ask you -- had Obama chosen a Liberal version of Palin and McCain had chosen a Conservative version of Biden, would that "one heart attack from the Presidency" argument have impressed you, and caused you to change your vote? Not a chance; you know i'm right.

-- Rem^Beau 06:28, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

McCain's running mate

Sarah Palin. Just heard from the BBC. Kirkburn 10:44, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh noes - an affirmative action (female) running mate! (Has it been confirmed yet, as the BBC website still says that Sarah Palin is speculative?) Bondurant 10:48, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

(Edit: Yes - it has now been updated on the website - here Bondurant 10:50, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Is it me or did he pick someone with less experience than Obama? DickTurpis 10:52, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

It is curious. She's younger than Obama and pretty moderate for a Republican. I think the idea is to try to get some of the Hillary Clinton supporters, but I think he just totally screwed himself with most conservatives. --Edgerunner⁷⁶_{Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter} 10:54, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

No kidding, she's three years younger than Obama, with even less experience than he has. By selected her, Mccain has just opened himself up for a massive attack. On top of that, she's currently under investigation for ethics violations in Alaska (she's accused of firing a state employee because he wouldn't fire her siser's ex husband's brother as a state trooper) and this investigation was launched by a Republican Controled legislature.... I know he wanted to try and court the Hillary supporters (as Edge pointed out above) but he seriously underestimates the extreme hatred his base has towards women. I really think this is one of the worst choices he could have made. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 11:46, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Moderate? She's flaminly anti-choice and she's a creationist. on all other political matters she's had 1 year of experience so she has no statements on record. how is that moderate?--Waiting for Godot 13:06, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Just look @ the activity on her Wikipedia page - 500+ in a day!   ^Contribs_Talk 23:45, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

SirChuck: // ... he seriously underestimates the extreme hatred his base has towards women.

Extreme hatred? Who are we talking about, and how do you gauge their feelings toward women?

And do we know who his base is? I doubt if he even has a base, unless you are defining his base as those that may vote for him just to vote against Obama.

// I really think this is one of the worst choices he could have made.

McCain is in a tight spot, and knows that his chances are very slim of beating Obama, given the trajectory of things so far.

Obama is a rock star with a huge number of adoring and enthusiastic fans, and is saying what most people want to hear; McCain wants to stay the course. McCain is an awkward speaker and comes off as a fogey; Obama exactly the opposite. That's just for starters.

So McCain, if he is to stand a chance, has to do something radical and unexpected, plus choose someone whose political philosophy could draw a loyal following that might constitute the base that McCain doesn't have.

Pundits are saying her inexperience will take away McCain's best offense -- that Obama has little experience. That is ridiculous -- they are out of touch as well as McCain -- almost NOBODY in the USA gives a rodent's derriere about experience. McCain had better race a different horse; that one is asleep.

Biden has tons of experience, and that is what makes him knowledgeable and confident, but you see how far that got him in his campaign for the nomination.

Pundits are flying without instruments in a dense fog, and couldn't care less.

If you just step back a moment from the election process, you'll see how farcical it all is, and have a good laugh (literally). No advantage to being grim as we head toward a nuclear winter.

"To those who think, life is a comedy. To those that feel, life is a tragedy."

-- Rem^Beau 00:11, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Wow. The GOP "base" is anti-woman. Obama is not a rock star, he is a politician, and a fairly good one. As far as the "experience" thing, you are full of shit... the GOp just skewered their giant "inexperience" meme. Rimbubba is "flying without instruments in a dense fog" and has nothing intelligent to offer, as usual. Although - we must admit - he thinks he is brilliant. ħuman 00:45, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) His base is the Republican base, that is to say, a lot of very bitter, women hating fundies. Just look at Conservapedia and read through any of their articles dealing with women's rights and you can guage those feelings pretty well. Best example, look at Andy, who has said on many many occasions that girls physically cannot compete with the big strong males in math and science. Now remember that his mother is considered a Conservative hero. I also disagree that Obama is a "rock star." Right after 9/11, GW sold out stadiums and had thousand of adoring fans as well, but he is simply a "great president," and an "inspiring speaker," whereas Barack is a Rock star? That makes no sense. I understant that McCain had to do something radical, but it's still the plain fact that he has just insulted the intelligence of every woman on the planet. He obviously thinks that women will trade away some very important causes to them, specifically Abortion rights, Gun control and Gay right (something that a lot of women seem to be involved in) just so they can put a woman in the VP slot. Is there anyone that can't see right through this? There was a great spot on the Daily Show tonight where Samantha Bee and Jon Stewart mocked this move mercilessly, this is pure pandering in the worst sense of the word. Why didn't he just choose Jesse Jackson? SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 00:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Michael Jackson, even better. Hombre, all the categories he would fill. If only his last name were Jackson-Alvarez. Plus McCain can't moon walk -- an important deficit MJ would compensate for.

-- Rem^Beau 00:51, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

You continue to make no sense at all. Rumjib, you also continue to embarrass yourself and your "position" with every comment you are making. ħuman 01:06, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Hey now, Human, that's not very civil. I actually took that final comment as fairly reasonable - not as a mockery of the idea they're trying to tick boxes, but as supporting it. Kirkburn 02:05, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, dang, sorry if I was uncivil. Care to explain why that made any sense? (either you, or Rimjub, or anyone else) ħuman 02:12, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

SirChuck -- As i recall, studies have indicated that males have a slight edge on math, and females a slight edge on language. Okay, it's possible, but i doubt it. Again they did a lot of backfilling, expaining why the differences. Had it turned out the opposite way, they would immediately have concocted "explanations". Anybody can call anything "science", and millions of know-nothings will agree, without even glancing at the data.

I heard that there was one study done, surveying students, that showed a strong positive correlation linking math skills and foot size -- then somebody realized the obvious, that older kids in the study had bigger feet. Maybe this is apochraphyl, but if somebody knows of this study and has a link to it, i would LOVE to capture it.

Read thru CP "articles dealing with women's rights"? Why bother, it is predictable that their views will be exactly opposite RW views, surely. I have offered them my article on Libertarianism, and if they take it i'll visit there, but so far there has been no interest. Maybe CPAdmin hasn't been back yet; it was only a couple of weeks ago, i think.

The thing is, neither the hard-Left nor the hard-Right will determine the outcome of this election, it is the mass of non-aligned (or barely-aligned) folks in the middle that get to decide. Only those that muster up the energy to go vote, that is. And NO-body knows HOW they think; it is laughable the conclusions pundits draw from the results of pols. I got a phone call just a few days ago (well before the Dem convention) -- a pollster asking me a few quick questions -- one was (i kid you not), "Do you want change, or maintain how things are done in WashDC?" (I gave her a short Libt spiel; she was nonplussed.)

If that doesn't make you laugh, you don't have a funnybone.

It doesn't follow that because Dubya was a rock-star immediately after 9/11, that Obama is not a rock-star now. From all i hear, Obama has the youth vote sewn up, and they are enthusiastic. W's favorability ratings were WAY down low last i heard (and probably dropping), topping only the ratings for Congress. Obama is pretty near the top of his game, don't you think?

Just McCain has insulted the intelligence of us all? And he is the only pander-bear? Wow. Quoting the perceptive Inigo Montoya. "I don't think that word means what you think it means". ("Pandering")

-- Rem^Beau 14:27, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I have to disagree with anyone here who says that Palin is an extremist. She has been an excellent reformer has helped to rid Alaska of an incredible amount of (Mostly Republican)corruption. She has often stood up to her party and has helped alaska in many ways. She is a wonderful woman who has made many contributions to Alaska and hopefully will make many more. I support Obama but if he follows along with these smears he will lose the votes of most open-minded individuals. As for the scandal it is a minor one, that has little actual relation to Sarah. If you disagree that is fine, but please learn more about Palin before insulting her. Thanks.The Alien^{Sick Freak!!!} 02:22, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

As I see the "scandal", with obviously limited information, she is being investigated by the corrupt system (the Alaskan legislature) she sought to upend? More details, please? ħuman 02:39, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

First repsonse to Alien, as that will be much shorter: When a woman is on record as being against abortion, pro gun, pro creationism, anti gay rights, pro death penalty and many others, that's a pretty good indicator that she's extremeist. Throw in that he has full support from both the NRA and National Right to Life, that pretty much locks that up. Not back to our Libertarian friend: I'm not denying that Males have a slight edge, but the fundies claim that men are just better and the poor little girls could never hope to match their ability. Whereas, most reasonalbe studies show that girls score lower because of preconceived(sp?) notions and gender stereotypes. No, neither the hard left or hard right will win the election for either candidate, but both of them can lost the election for their parties. Look at 2004, when the Christian vote didn't come out as strong for the GOP, they got their asses kicked. I'll have to ask you how to explain why Bush isn't a rock star after 9/11 because his ratings are down now (seven years later) but Obama is a rock star. I would also like to point out that I never said McCain was the only one pandering. But this selection is pure pandering and I repeat, he has insulted the intelligence of all of us. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 15:44, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

ACORN

Is this worthy of an article - I noticed a (negative) comment on CP (sorry can't remember where). They seem to be a leftist ... well leftist by US standards ... organisation with some connections to Obama.   ^Contribs_Talk 00:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't see why not... and who cares what CP thinks of them? ħuman 01:09, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

To pander or not to pander

SirChuck: // But this selection is pure pandering ...

Pander :: "To appeal to (base emotions or less noble desires), so as to achieve one's purpose; to exploit (base emotions, such as lust, prejudice, or hate)."

You're probably saying to yourself -- YES -- this strengthens my case! That is because YOU consider Liberal views noble and views opposite as base, and that THEY are prejudiced and hateful, while YOU are NOT.

When you read over several of these pages, do you not notice examples of prejudice, sometimes to the point of bitchiness? (I know, the Libt posts only.)

Bertrand Russell's "Conjugation of an irregular verb: I am firm, you are stubborn, he is a pig-headed fool."

(Side note: do Brits really say "ponce" instead of "pimp"?)

Question of the day -- is a Socialist pandering when he says things Socialists want to hear? (Serious question.)

// and I repeat, he has insulted the intelligence of all of us.

You only repeat that because you are looking thru a Liberal lens. If Obama had chosen a Palin-type that agreed with all your views, would you have felt your intelligence had been insulted? Would it have been pandering to the Left? You are entitled to believe your views are the most intelligent, everybody does (as a Libt, why would i pick views unless i consider them to be the most intelligent?), but to be insulted ...?

Just consider the simplistic approach to poverty: give them money. As a Libt i believe that approach to be unintelligent and counterproductive, but it is a popular view held by a lot of intelligent people, so for me to be insulted by that would be silly.

-- Rem^Beau 06:55, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Happy Worker's Holiday!

Yeah, North America is weird. We have May Day in September. Wonder if Andy & Co. are taking advantage of this lovely union-related holiday? --Kels 13:49, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Peer Review Service

Looking around this wiki, I am slowly starting to get the idea that a peer review service for articles could be used. I am not trying to imply that the articles here are bad, but there are a few I have bumped into that could use improvement. I am thinking of making a page (Rationalwiki:PEAS) (Peas would stand for People for the Evaluation of ArticleS.), which would review and rate articles on qualities such as grammar/prose, insight, concept, and snark/goat. Before I start this project, however, I would like some community insight regarding other possible qualities, rules for the service, and some people who would be interested in joining. At the moment, I am thinking this is what a page would look like

“Article Name” (with link) “Reviewers name” (sig), date submitted, date reviewed

Quality 1, score (out of 10?)

Paragraph on the aforementioned quality

Quality 2, score (out of 10?)

Paragraph on the aforementioned quality

Quality 3, score (out of 10?)

Paragraph on the aforementioned quality

Quality 4, score (out of 10?)

Paragraph on the aforementioned quality

Final score out of 40.

From what I am thinking, less than a 10 would be a possible delete, up to 20 would be a respectable article, around 30 would be average, and around 40 has potential for randomly featured. Input on the above would be appreciated. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ secret trainer of politicians!

Why not a more intuitive title, like RationalWiki:article review? Anyway, one of my first reactions was that taking the effort to review a lower-scoring article would be better spent actually improving it. Also, not sure deletion should be a result? Many articles start small and would surely not get many points, and they slowly get better. In general, though, I see no reason why we couldn't have a "central" location as you suggest for such consideration of article quality. ħuman 15:44, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

The other problem I see with this is the large variance(sp?) of attitudes towards humor and the differing opinions on what is and is not funny. I could review an article and give it a horrible score for whatever reason, where Human may think it's the best thing ever... The law of averages would balance, but that takes many many reviews before you can get an accurate picture and even that doesn't work (look at Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble.com and see how many people game the system to inflate or deflate book ratings) SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 16:37, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Well, to avoid gaming the system, we could limit the people who are allowed to post reviews to the main page of the review; other reviewers would have the opportunity to post reviews on the talk page, but they wouldn't affect the average. And we could even make it a new user group, goat knows we don't have enough of those at the moment. Thunderkatz^Ho! 16:47, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

People are already weighting their desire or need to write an article with the time and effort it takes. Subject them to a scrutiny like that proposed, and the number of articles will dramatically drop (unless everybody here is an exhibitionist who takes pleasure in having articles examined and rated). Editor at CP^{Liar at RP!} 16:57, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

That's assuming all articles would be reviewed, a task too big for the current number of users, especialy if we include old articles. Rather, articles could be submitted for peer review if someone feels either, 1) an article is living up to its potential or the standards of the site, 2) a good article isn't receiving the attention it deserves, 3) someone isn't sure whether the article is something they can trust and want to see other's opinions, or 4-infinity) any other number of reasons, as long as there is a reason. Thunderkatz^Ho! 17:05, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Anyone can nominate for cover story/best of ... and likewise delete/mission so we're already covered - no?   ^Contribs_Talk 17:30, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

@ Susan, yes, I think so - and we have the intercom as well as recent changes to bring people's attention to things we think need work. @Thunderkatz, "we could limit the people who are allowed to post reviews to the main page of the review" rather runs against the anarchic way things work here (join and don't vandalize for 72 hours and someone is likely to make you a sysop). ħuman 18:59, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

No, I don't think that PEAS should be required. You CAN submit it for a review if you want, but you don't have to. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ secret trainer of politicians!

'Scap, we pretty much already do that. On articles' talk pages, and partially via the templates that Susan mentioned. ħuman 23:43, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

besides, peer review is carried out before publication. It's a bit late when the thing's out there. Silly Idea!   ^Contribs_Talk 23:54, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

The various points aside, I think we could expand or develop a way of highlighting articles with in particular categories that need special attention. tmtoulouse ^annoy 23:57, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

[[category:article on important topic that still sucks]]? ħuman 00:03, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Shiny RW

Google Chrome

So, here's the first screen-cap from Google's new browser. ANyone else downloaded yet? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 16:15, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Does it have any claim to be better than firefox? (I've barely heard of it, so I simply don't know) ħuman 16:47, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

It just came out, so no one knows. It is supposedly been redone from the ground up, the press kit and google blogs say it browses the web in a totally different manner than existing applications. It is also ultra-beta I think. We will just have to wait and see. It is open-source though so if it is brilliant Firefox can adapt its innovations. tmtoulouse ^annoy 17:31, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

I've been checking frequently all today since ever I heard about it, so it has only been released for a couple of hours. However, it doesn't have a lot of customisation features so far. It does appear to be quite quick though. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 18:37, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Well, it may have "just come out", but it wasn't written yesterday. Surely the manufacturer has some claims of what makes it better? ħuman 18:51, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

They do, but it is in comic form, I am not kidding. Here it is. tmtoulouse ^annoy 18:54, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

I think I'll wait until I hear whether it's secure or not. Sterile^snore! 18:55, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

<--I am running it now. I'll give it a couple of weeks before deciding if it's worth keeping. I'm going to guess that until the cache gets loaded up it's going to be fairly "clunky". CЯacke® 19:13, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

I must be reading too few comics, as that one reminded me of Jack Chick. Editor at CP^{Liar at RP!} 19:18, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Your not alone, I wanted desperately to redo it with Chick dialog. tmtoulouse ^annoy 19:20, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

<--It appears security is one of its "big" claims to superiority. Security, speed, and taking out the trash. I remember when I switched to firefox it spent a few days or more "learning" - at first I was getting timed out on wikis in an hour or two, and it gradually stopped, for example. ħuman 20:12, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Oh, and its goal is almost irrelevant to most of "us" - they want to make MS bust open IE, I suspect. ħuman 20:14, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Most people think the goal is to provide a plat form for "cloud computing" which is where google seems to putting its eggs. tmtoulouse ^annoy 20:15, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Hmmm, yeah, run the "hard work" on server farms and keep the nodes mean and lean? People already mostly accept it for email. ħuman 00:05, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

<--It runs funkily. It will stop scrolling all of a sudden only to resume by adding ALL of the unscrolled...scrolls, ending up jumping to an unfamiliar place on the page. Additionally, the cursor doesn't always show links as links, (the cursor doesn't change shapes right away), one has to guess that what should be a link IS, in fact, a link. Minor points. BIGGER: The "back" button doesn't have a "list" feature, if you want to go back three or four pages back you have to go back serially. CЯacke® 12:30, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

It is certainly buggy in a few places, I have managed to crash it easily enough multiple times and get stutter steps. However, it does have that feature Cracker, you just have to click and hold the mouse button to get the list. tmtoulouse ^annoy 14:09, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Why is this section called "Shiny RW" when it's about Google's new browser? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 14:33, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

It is a secret cabal code. tmtoulouse ^annoy 14:38, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

I thought you used Morse cord? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 14:39, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

We do, the letters in the title correspond to particular morse code patterns that you can then translate into letters. tmtoulouse ^annoy 14:42, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Beware the ides of ... September...Sterile^snore! 16:50, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

(GRRRRR edit conflict)There's this {{user chrome}} if anyone's interested. I'm using chrome for RW but I'm lukewarm on it so far. I like the way its spellchecker questions "google". Totnesmartin 14:45, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Did somebody say Chick Tract? NightFlare^{i haz a talk page.} 14:54, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

@RA - Have you worked out the relevance of the section name yet or do want a laboured explanation? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 15:21, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

I realized what it was referring to literally 30 seconds ago. Chrome + RationalWiki = "Shiny RW". Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 15:54, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

Not sure it's the right place but...

Have a look at the Jon Stewart video clip! http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ Mick McT 07:57, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

And for those that have missed PZ's recent blog posts - vote for evolution at Belief.net. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 08:34, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Currently we godless evolutionists are at 71%, evolution guided by god - 17%, loonies - 12%. Remember the truth is a beauty contest. Silver Sloth 08:41, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

When PZ first posted I believe godless evolution was in second place. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 09:53, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

"evolution is true, and religion has nothing to do with it" just reached 85%! - Icewedge (*bleet*) 02:31, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Disaster relief

Folks, just to prick our collective consciences, countries like Haiti are being devastated by hurricanes and mighty storms (three in three weeks). I encourage those who can afford it to give help. For most of us either the British Red Cross or American Red Cross are probably the best places to donate. This list from Wikipedia gives details of organisations in other countries. Thanks for reading. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 15:26, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Template categorization project

I am trying to start a project to categorize all of our templates. It's goals are twofold. One is to provide a visible and easy means of finding any and all templates of a particular type, and the second is to promote their use in the process. What good is a template if it's never used, especially if there is a need for it but no one can find it? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 18:12, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

For example, there are numerous templates designed for use within the body of a text, such as Template:U, Template:Unsigned, and Template:Rw. Such templates would, to name one possibility of organizing them, be classified as in-text templates. (This kind of categorization scheme is already done with navigation templates.) There are also other, more visible ways of organizing them, such as with a navbox-type template for each major kind of template (yes a template for classifying templates). Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 18:12, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Because it would defeat the purpose of this project if I was the only one who was working on it, I would like to know if there is any support in the community for this project. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 18:12, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Yes, shall we try to develop a good list of a half dozen to ten or so major categories? "Humorous" should certainly be one? (Or will we have fight for "humouress"?). Let's make a bullet list above your comment or somesuch as we come up with them. What other categories would you suggest? ħuman 18:57, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Here are some suggestions : Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:57, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Suggested template categories

• Navigation templates (for navboxes)
• Userboxes
• In-text templates (for templates designed to blend into a body of text, rather than being distinct from it)
  • Random-text generators, like the dog latin one and templates noun and verb.
• Humorous templates (which already exists under a different name)
• Talkpage templates (for templates such as Talkpage, {{subst:T|Talkheader}}, and {{subst:T|Talkheader no user}})
• a category for templates like Delete, Delete-userreq, and Keep.
• categories for project-specific templates as appropriate, such as the templates created specifically for use in RationalWiki:Active users, Conservapedia:Active users, and as part of the Collapsible Comment System.
• Headers, which describe the content below. (For example, the templates Pseudoscience, Notscience, and Bullshit).

Feel free to add your own! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:57, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

Navigation, yes. Userboxes, yes. In-text (clumsy name, can we come up with something better?), sure. Humorous - yes, "silly", bad title - insults the creators. Random makes sense to me - just call it "random XXX" though. Talk page, yup. "Article judgement" (not a suggested title) might be useful. We also need "meta" templates, like t. And there are "project" templates like "essay", "cover". The ones you call "project" are more better called "single use" templates I think. Headers, sounds good. ħuman 21:39, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

I must say, I am floored by everyone's response... Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 15:03, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

You never know what you will find on CP if you just scroll down...

Someone please help, don't know how to get this to display. Thanks Jimaginator 13:30, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Why the hell are we hosting this crap? --Kels 17:49, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Showing us the awful picture just to say "look at their awful picture" is unnecessary. A link would suffice, n'est-ce pas? Insert Name Here 18:33, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

I don't think we have any Nespa, sir. Just Hershey's. --Kels 18:48, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

With that out of the way, it's a very curious connection they're trying to make here. Bullfighting is not something I'd usually associate with Cuba... But hey! They speak Spanish, so I guess they must like bullfighting, eh? Because that's just how those Hispanics are like, right? They love bullfighting, all of 'em. Yup. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 21:06, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Apologies to those offended by the picture, certainly not my intention. Jimaginator 16:26, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Favicon

How do I create a favicon for my webpage? (like, what program did you use?) Kettle o' fish 17:42, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Virtually any graphic editor. You just need to save it as "favicon.gif". If I remember correctly it should be 16x16 pixels. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 18:34, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

16x16 px?! How am I supposed to make a CP favicon now?!_{haha... yea right.} Kettle o' fish 19:40, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

It's amazing what can be done on such a small canvas. The reason they are 16 x 16 is that is how they are displayed on monitors. One way to work is to start with something larger (say, 256 x 256), and keep looking at it "downsized" by a factor of four to see how it will look. "travelling through" a "save as jpg" step can help make it look better, but it has to end up as a gif. Instead of just looking at a smaller version, you can also make copies and resize them to 16 x 16. Good luck! ħuman 21:32, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Liberal frees goats!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7607460.stm

Damn it! they should have been locked up for life! (Or at least until the oven was up to the correct temperature!) Mick McT 08:20, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

Ït has been noted in WIGOworld Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 09:13, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

The Brick Testament

I just found the Brick Testament, Bible stories illustrated in Lego (should appeal to AKjeldsen) by the Rev. Brendan Powell Smith. The stories even get rated for nudity, sex and violence and there are some graphic scenes. I liked this and this from the story of Er and Onan. I need to check out more later. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 09:55, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

I love the Holy Ghost! Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 10:07, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

Smith is not actually a clergy Reverend, it's just a nickname, but the Brick Testament is indeed pretty awesome. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 10:14, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

OK, he admits that on the FAQ. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 10:18, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

Today is Constitution Day in the U.S.

Today is Constitution Day in the U.S., and I am celebrating the brilliance of the Founding Fathers. Perhaps Conservapedia might want to acknowledge this day. Perhaps not. Jimaginator 13:56, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Despite all of his work, Dick Cheney's archenemy survives for another year. --Edgerunner⁷⁶_{Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter} 14:01, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Nice site!

Hullo, I came here after asking And a few questions over at Conservapedia, and bumped into this site, and took a short look around. I like the crowd, hece, I am sticking around for a bit. AlexaJ 23:01, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Welcome to the gang, pull up a goat and have some fun! - Icewedge (*bleet*) 23:49, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

What Ice said :) ħuman 00:06, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Let me be the third to say hello! That's kind of our philosophy here - being third. Or fourth. DogP 14:39, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Good Lord! I just realized that Hurricane Ike was God's punishment for the establishment of Conservapedia!

How could I be so blind? Godspeed Jimaginator 10:34, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Please open your mind and see our article on Divine retribution for further details. Godspeed. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 11:34, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Alrighty, I will! Jimaginator 15:35, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

That was yesterday

Could someone clevererer than me end the pirate quotes on Recent changes? I think Hawaii still has an hour left, but that's it. Totnesmartin 05:51, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

ez edit

I'm not getting the whole ez edit thing...what is it?-- -PalMD ^{--Yee haw!} 22:47, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

You mean for the WIGO pages? It allows you to add new entries to the top and only have to load 5-10 other entries. Cuts back on load time and server strain. As well as requiring less patience on your part. The bottom section is moved up nightly by a bot. tmtoulouse ^annoy 22:53, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Cool.-- -PalMD ^{--Yee haw!} 22:57, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for explaining that as I've been wondering for a while since I've been occaisionally contributing. I assume it's a template thing or does someone keep having to shift things down? Armondikov 15:49, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

One of my rapidly growing army of minions does it every night. tmtoulouse 15:52, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

Google's 10¹⁰⁰ project

Has anyone seen this yet? It is certainly a great idea, IMHO. --Edgerunner⁷⁶_{Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter} 11:38, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Needs wider audience

I posted this last night on the Sarah Palin page, but it got buried amid the Ban-a-thon ceremonies and I reckoned it might get missed. The Palin Presidency, movie trailer. Enjoy! DogP 14:42, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

University of Michigan Godbothering nutjob

...has anyone else run into the crazy homophobic preacher holding court on campus? 68.40.194.2 15:30, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

McCain used the German Pronunciation of "hmadinejad"

ACH-Mah-dine-ijad96.240.134.70 21:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Onion

This is great, IMHO. Thunderkatz^Ho! 21:41, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

lol. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 21:50, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Still not as good as this one though SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 01:22, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Haven't those both been "something"IGO'd months ago? ħuman 02:06, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

That was the first Onion article I saw a couple years ago. Not knowing the Nature of the Onion, and knowing the nature of ID all too well, I thought it was probably real but hoped it was satire. Sometimes it's good to be wrong. Kallium 20:37, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

A bit premature to worry, but...

(For lack of a better place to discuss this, I'll post here), things don't look so good for Obama's reelection. An estimate posted on a Wikipedia article shows some pretty major shifts are likely coming to the Electoral College following the next census in 2010. If that's true a Democrat will have a more uphill battle in 2012 than in 2008. Should Obama win in November by carrying the states most polls show him leading in (Gore + CO and NH) he will have 273 electoral votes (270 to win). Carrying the same states in 2012 will give him only 264. This is part of a trend; in 2000 Gore only needed New Hampshire to win, today he'd need NH plus 6 more electoral votes. Let's hope for more of a blue shift in the next 4 years in other states. DickTurpis 18:53, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm glad we're worrying about his reelection :) ħuman 21:00, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

We aren't. So far it's just me. DickTurpis 21:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Wow.... this far ahead already? I think what gets lost is that all demographics change atthe same time.... Eight years ago, no democrat had a chance in the South or most of the west, but Obama is poised to take Virginia and will probably nab Colorado we're coming around as well.... So even though the numbers may change, the voters will change as well. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 01:19, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

To an extent you're right, but I don't think in general the voters are changing as quickly as the populations. Texas, for example, may apparently gain 4 seats (I'm tempted to think that's a really high estimate, but still) but isn't about to turn blue any time soon. Not if they resurrected LBJ himself. At least places like Florida and Arizona are potential swing states (obviously McCain takes Arizona out this time around). DickTurpis 01:38, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I agree with you to a point, but I think the voters change very rapidly... I mean, look at how the map has changed in just these last eight years, who's to say what may happen down the road.... and I think this is all really premature anyway... As for Arizona, don't be sure... every poll seems to change the leader. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 01:55, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

At some level, the reason the southern states are gaining population is northerners moving there for the weather (like my parents to NC). Look at what's happened to NH as the MAss(nicepeople)s move north to get out of the congestion - we've gone so far blue as to be a "swing state" - surely there will be similar trends as people who aren't retirees move south for work or weather, and slowly transform the politics there. I, for one, yearn for a day when the US electoral map does not look like a Civil War re-enactment. ħuman 01:58, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Link in above added by Sir Chuckie, no offense taken (whatever it is). ħuman 02:10, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Well, a Civil War re-enactment at least would make Kansas a swing state. But anyway, I guess my point is that if the election were held today, and if most of the polls were accurate, then Obama would win this year, but wouldn't in 2012 without winning an extra state or two. And keep in mind, these projections take into account where the people are now, it's the electoral votes that are behind; those will change suddenly, the voting patterns will change very gradually. My main concern is, looking at this Wikiepdia projection (obiovusly by no means set in stone, but probably the best guess we have at the moment) we have gains for states that should be safe for Republicans for years to come (TX, NC, SC, GA, UT) 8, gains for states that should be safe for Dems (OR, still technically a swing state) 1, swing states (all of which seem to be leaning McCain at the moment: AZ, FL, NV) 5. Losses: Safe Democratic states (CA, IL, MA, NJ, NY) 6, Swing states (IA, LA, MI, MN, MO, PA, OH) 8, Safe Republican states: 0. Of course, defining a swing state is tough, MN is considered one even though it last voted for a Republican in 1972, and MO and LA have been pretty reliably Republican. What is considered safe can change in 4 years, but it's not likely to change dramatically (the maps from 2000, 2004, and the projected outcome this year do not vary greatly, and are almost all variation is within swing states). Candidates can have an impact, as a Clintonian Southern Democrat can do well in parts of the South, but if we're looking at reelecting Obama then we won't have that scenario in 2012 (if it isn't Obama it will likely be Hillary, who won't do any better in those states, I suspect). Well, this is premature, to say the least. DickTurpis 02:20, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) Just a link to the Snopes page talking about the whole Bush/slave state thing... It also has a more detailed map. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 02:20, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

2008 US Presidential elections

So I am curious if you guys want to do any fun RW type stuff on the lead up to election night, and/or on election night itself. Ideas:

• Something like our massive debate pages we do with everyone chiming in for how they think each state will break
• Some sort of interactive type thing, using the sliders, or forms or something to allow people to submit their election predictions involving percentages, electoral votes, state, etc.
• An election day page marked with sub headers in the order we can expect returns to come in that we can comment in as we go.

Anything else anyone can think of. I know this is a "US centric" project but I think most everyone is at least tangentially interested in this race. And seeing as how I am not home for the election and can't go out and party at the Hyatt with the NM dems, the next best place for me is to spend it with my RW friends! Any thoughts? tmtoulouse 21:30, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Skype Party! (Can we do that?) DickTurpis 01:12, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

A giant RationalWiki conference call eh? I suppose anything is doable with enough interest. tmtoulouse 01:23, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

You slipped up on the WIGO there, Trent. You used an apostrophe!   ^Contribs_Talk 01:32, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I think we should use all our guns - the chat room thingie (Oh yeah, IRC), debates, talk:main, argue on each other's talk pages, send red telephone messages to Kuntdoll, edit CP to death, etc. etc. Oh, but back to Dick's thoughts, yes, a couple of "debate" pages, appropriately headered, could be fun. ħuman 01:43, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Well, don't expect me to pitch in for any bells and whistles, I have $100 riding on a McCain victory. I expect I will be losing money that night. DickTurpis 02:33, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Is that so you can be happy either way it goes? Oh, and did you get odds? ħuman 02:43, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

It's meant to take the sting off an Obama loss, and it worked well in 2004. A new, crisp $100 bill was a very welcome sight after a Bush victory (my wise-ass friend taped a picture of W over that of Franklin). I believe I bought a very fine bottle of scotch. I perhaps should have got odds, but I didn't want to get into haggling, besides, it's a fair enough bet (we didn't coin the phrase "Dem it up" for nothing, and Obama could still do just that). It is one bet I'm hoping to lose. DickTurpis 10:06, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Tags in Edit History

Basic operating question that's been eluding me for a while: how does one modify the summary for a post such that the section tag appears like it should (grayed, with link on the arrow)? According to Andy, I can't think for myself, so I figure I should just follow the bandwagon. Thanks for any help. Kallium 11:36, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

It's been automatic everytime I've looked at it but the edit summary should have "/* Tags in Edit History */" written in it, which is what I think causes the summary to add the greyed out section heading and arrow. You can add what you like afterwards without affecting it. ArmondikoV^moral 11:51, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

You edit the section - not the page! (click on the "edit" at the right of the section header)   ^Contribs_Talk 11:54, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh, well THAT makes several things easier! Why didn't I notice that before?! Thanks. Kallium 12:06, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Don't worry Kallum, Susan had to correct me as well.... I had never heard of it before. SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 14:39, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

At the field level, it's triggered purely by the /* */, so you can simulate it if you want. --Toiretni 17:29, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

But don't please!   ^Contribs_Talk 17:38, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Why not? ħuman 21:32, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

'cause if you click on it you go nowhere - just the top of the page & you can spend (subjective) hours looking for a section head that's not there.   ^Contribs_Talk 21:44, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Exactly :) (I found this one easily by looking at the header below it, which I often do...) ħuman 21:53, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Deleted and restored

Because of a stalker posting personal information. PFoster 12:59, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

okay...but you came close to nuking the page history as well, when restoring a page restore all the previous history, that is important information. tmtoulouse 13:05, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Sorry Trent--gotta admit, I wasn't entirely sure how to proceed, but given the nature of what was posted (name, children's names, address, personal e-mail, etc) I figured it was best to act quickly...sorry if I risked breaking the blog....PFoster 13:11, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

It is okay, no harm no foul. tmtoulouse 13:13, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Bureaucrat help

What's the name of the page that changes the user's rights? I want to put a link in my signature that links the text, "make me a bot", to that page. Kettle o' fish 23:53, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey, I had that idea ages ago! ^_^

Wait here while I get it, OK? Pink_{(Silly minds think alike)} 23:55, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Don't bother. You're a bot. DickTurpis 23:56, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe he meant at CP.

Anyway, there is no link that takes you to the user rights for one editor, you have to type them in on this page. It'll do, I think, but you'll have to adapt the link. Pink_(CP!) 00:01, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I meant for CP. Thanks. _{It's not a red link, so it must work} Kettle o' fish 20:01, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Conservative eyes all around us... OOOO SPOOKY

Hey! Remember me from months ago? I was just wondering, any idea how many conservapedia members actually look at this site? It might give them an advantage(like userpages which blatantly shout that they have sock puppets), or make them change their mind(we wish).--American87 19:45, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

It's pretty much a well known secret that everybody at Conservapedia reads us.,... As for the whole thing, that's part of the fun. When they start blocking every new user as a sock, the better for lulz SirChuckB^{Penguin Knight, First Class} 11:32, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Ah, this kind of website. That explains why they always know who I am( my motto, I AM IC3W3DG3!, I AM $U93RMAN!, is a sort of dead giveaway.) Maybe one day they will just stop letting people join. Then, The Ten will get old and we will have to switch targets to, say, creationWiki. Thanks, now I will helpfully explain every time that I plan on making a short-lived sock--American87 17:50, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Play the biomedical misinterpretation game!!

Today's theme: "...as versatile as the stem cells derived from [human] embryos...": How do you think Andy will react to this? Go! Kallium^talk 20:37, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Note to Forum janitors

A spammer has vomited all over the forum section of the dollhouse. (placed here because the intercom isn't cooperating with me...)--Bayes 11:06, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

What? Is this the RW forum that I seem to be banned from but haven't got round to questioning why or somewhere on the wiki in some code designed to confuse peons like myself? ArmondikoV^moral 11:23, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

No, we have the just the one you see under the "navigation" box to your left. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 13:48, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Is there a way to "delete all posts" by a given username there? Doing this one at a time is tedious... ħuman 15:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

I asked Linus about this and he said it's possible with the next version of the software, but not at the moment. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 07:11, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

From whence came the goats? The truth revealled!

I always knew they were different and evil but you wouldn't listen would you [4]? Mick McT 07:02, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Presumably, descendants of the great space cow wp:Audumbla, mother to us all. --JeevesMkII 09:34, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Strange image

Is it me, or do the crowds in this image - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/americas_sarah_palin_past_and_present/html/11.stm - look wildly out of place. Kirkburn 19:47, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh, also, http://www.palinaspresident.us/ if you haven't seen it :) Kirkburn 19:51, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

She kan haz red telefonz! ħuman 20:03, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

At least it's a red telephone worth listening to. :) Kirkburn 20:32, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

One of my red telephones came from Sweden. Very nice lines, and a plug that looks like it could carry 30 amps. My other red telephone is shaped like a "come fuck me pump", goes nicely with the mannequins. Huh? ħuman 02:00, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Nuclear Bomb Movie- Need RW's help!!!

Hey--a long time ago (maybe 10 years or so) I watched a doc--possibly on the Discovery channel, maybe not--on the way nuclear bombs work, taking a step-by-step approach, going over fractions of a second to show what happened over the few seconds it takes for a bomb to go off. Does this ring a bell with anybody, and if so, can you get me the title? I thought it might be "Hiroshima," the BBC doc-- but I just watched some excerpts on YouTube and it's not that. any help would be greatly appreciated.PFoster 00:21, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

What's wrong with the wiki, Trent?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like some pages are really slow to open up--mostly when I want to edit WIGO-world and WIGO-CP. What's the deal? PFoster 10:39, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Is there still a problem? Sometimes we just have a lot of traffic hitting the server too, we are about double the daily traffic from even August, so high bandwidth pages like wigo-cp during peak times might just load slow. Anyway, just keep me informed as much as possible is all I can suggest. tmtoulouse 23:13, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Do you know why that is? Is this a random spike in traffic, a not-so-random spike (a lá the Lenski Affair), or are we growing as a site? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:03, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

THIS SITE IS GROWING RAPIDLY ^(TM)PFoster 00:06, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Our daily traffic from August is up 33 percent on average, with peaks of 100-150 percent. I will release monthly traffic reports on the 1st, it is another "record" month for RW. tmtoulouse 00:40, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

How much do we invest into RationalWiki?

It is almost that time of year again, the coffers are getting close to empty and we need to start thinking about raising some funds for the site. Google ads has been a marginal help, it does help, but not a huge amount, and I think it might detract from the site as a whole. Here is what I would like to propose, that we go full steam ahead and make the choice to invest into RationalWiki completely. That we decide as a site that we are here to stay for the foreseeable future and its time to settle in for the long hall. I can get a discount on our server costs if I pay for a year contract of service. I estimate that we would need to raise about $850 and I could pay for RW for one year, I could take down the ads, and none of us has to worry about the site for a whole year. Even if I get run over by car we are guaranteed to be up for a year. But do you think we can do it? Is it a reasonable goal? Any other thoughts or ideas about how to proceed? tmtoulouse 23:13, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

I'm willin to do it, I'm wantin to it, I'm waitin to do it! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:00, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I fail Pygmalion. But I'm more than willing to pony up a couple hundred bucks if it'll help the site. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:00, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I just cancelled my PI pledge the other day because of issues related to PayPal, the exchange rate, my Canadian credit card and living in the USA, all very complicated...but I'll throw in a buck or two if there's a way to mail a cheque. PFoster 00:03, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, we don't take cheques. Checks, on the other hand... : ) Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:08, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Well I can't really set up a merchant account to do my own credit card processing, too much effort and expense so pay pal will have to be the only way to take credit cards. I am open to taking cheques and checks, but would likely require having them sent to Canada. Which shouldn't be that big a deal. tmtoulouse 00:38, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Keep in mind that depending on the banks involved, depositing foreign cheques can both be hideously expensive and take a small eternity to clear. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 11:33, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I actually receive a fair amount of foreign currency checks and have my account "perks" setup to facilitate it. Checks from any of the major industrial/western areas of the world clear fine, I have never tried with a check from more remote places so who knows about that. 130.113.218.226 11:52, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I am willing to cheer wildly from the sidelines. Go TEAM Go and stuff like that. Carptrash 03:33, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

The donation widget should be moved to maybe the main page so everyone views it. It is depressing to see it move so slowly.Willis 11:17, 18 November 2008 (EST)

There are people who look at the Main Page? _and marmite 11:25, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Aye, Toast is right, recent changes is the hot bed of activity for this site. 130.113.218.226 11:54, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I should have said copied instead of moved. I just think it should be in more than one place.Willis 14:23, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I'm not sure if the donation widget displays properly. It's truncated at the bottom for me and I only see the top four graduation marks. (Firefox on Windows vista)--Bob^{bing up} 12:19, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Probably a FF thing - mine's the same but on another browser it's 2x as wide and nicely rounded at the bottom. _and marmite 12:26, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, Chrome OK, Opera OK, Safari OK. FF no. But we must have a lot of geeks on FF.--Bob^{bing up} 13:00, 18 November 2008 (EST)

My other browser's Epiphany. _and marmite 13:04, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Absentee Voting

By the way, Trent, being that you're an American citizen living in Canada (as I recall, at least): how did the absentee voting go for you? Smoothly, I hope? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:42, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Brilliantly as our county clerk Maggie Toulouse is doing an amazing job! tmtoulouse 00:49, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:D Oh, that is too awesome, Trent—your relative is the county clerk! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:05, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Hm. I have discovered that my county clerk does not have his own page, while yours does. That is so not fair... Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:09, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Also, yours' color scheme is better, too. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:11, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Yep, Maggie is great. My family is multi-generation stalwart grass root dems in NM. Been born and raised on lit drops, phone banking, and conventions. I miss it very much. tmtoulouse 01:16, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

And it misses you - tho not as much as if you were NOT voting here. Carptrash 03:36, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

President

I've edited the Main Page to say that Obama will be President. Proxima Centauri 00:04, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Yes, you did. It's not exactly news ;) Please come join the party at my talk page, it's sort of an RW thing to do. ħuman 02:36, 5 November 2008 (EST)

I wonder if Andy's head has exploded yet? My wife and I will be drinking champagne tonight in London.... he he he! Darkmind1970 06:40, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Tech Errors on my Website - Experts, Please Help!

Hey all... so my lovely site, [www.acandidworld.net here], keeps getting random errors. I've gotten 403 Errors, 500 Internal Server Errors, delayed responses resuluting in a blank page, and even half-connects (loaded half of the site's content, then ignored the rest). I haven't done anything to fiddle with the site in the last week. Do any of you tech experts understand what's happening to my baby :( ?-caius (spy) 19:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)